GDR star Frank Schöbel: “People feel ignored by the leaders again”

Frank Schöbel and Frank Zander are war children, pop stars, and Rammstein fans. In an interview, the Berlin friends talk about women, football, and frustration in the East.

Frank Zander and Frank Schöbel during an interview at Meisel-Verlag in Berlin-Charlottenburg Jordis Antonia Schlösser/Ostkreuz

Frank Schöbel and Frank Zander hug to greet each other and discuss how to be photographed. Schöbel: "Old people never from below!" Zander: "We're old, there's nothing we can do." They've known each other for almost 40 years, have many things in common (first names, year of birth, profession) and even more differences (origin, women, football clubs). All of this is the subject of this interview, the first the two musicians and friends have given together. A plate of cookies is on the table. Frank Schöbel is drinking coffee, Frank Zander is drinking a beer.

I'd like to talk to you about your lives. You're both children of war, born in 1942.

Frank Zander: I'm from Neukölln , and sometimes I still dream about it. I don't know why.

What do you dream about? Zander: My grandma had a dairy on Karl-Marx-Platz, which later became a pub. We built caves in the rubble. There was this trolley, a train that carried away the rubble. Sometimes I dream that the trolley suddenly starts moving, and we're all on top of it until it derails, and then we jump off.

Frank Schöbel: I was only two and a half when the war ended. I think I still remember the crashing and banging in the air-raid shelter. That's why I like it when there's a real buzz on stage, with banging and things flying up and all that. Like with Rammstein , that's awesome.

Zander: I think the love songs are beautiful. We once sang German love songs in the Rammstein style. With my raspy voice. Loving you, touching you, your closeness... Roland didn't like that so much.

Frank Zander: “The Berlin subway shafts were full of dirty water”

Roland Kaiser? Zander: Yes, but it was a lot of fun.

Schöbel: For a special birthday, my friends from my band sang "Die Sprache der Liebe ist leis" (The Language of Love Is Quiet) in the Rammstein style. Awesome.

So the war made you Rammstein fans. How else did it shape your life?

Zander: When Berlin was bombed , my father took us to the Sudetenland. At the end of the war, we fled from there in a handcart over the Giant Mountains to Berlin, with us on top. My sister painted her face black with shoe polish so the Russians wouldn't get the wrong idea. The first thing I noticed in Berlin was that the subway tunnels were full of dirty water. It was pretty bad, all in one room at my grandmother's. We played in the yard. The milk came in a giant tub and was then poured into jugs. I can still smell that tub being rinsed out every evening.

Schöbel: My mother also had to leave with me, to Schirgiswalde. When Dresden was bombed, we were standing in front of the train. Luckily, we couldn't get into the station, otherwise we might not have been alive. But I only know that from hearsay. My father was picked up by the Russians in 1945, taken to the Neuburxdorf prisoner of war camp near Torgau, and died there.

Do you know why he was brought to the camp?

Schöbel: He was a lawyer and in the civil service, not really political, but he was a member of the Nazi Party. That was also the reason for me later not to join any political party in the world.

How was your father's death explained to you as a child? The Soviets were the good guys in the GDR, but they were also the ones who had killed your father. Schöbel: But the Germans started the war, and my father had to pay for it. That's just how it was. Growing up without a father wasn't easy for me as a child, though. I slept badly, tossed and turned, and banged my legs against the wall. But my mother was there; she was relaxed, she was good. She was an opera singer. My father was also a musician; he played the saxophone and piano and sang.

Zander: See, that's where your talent comes from. I got my passion for painting from my father, who was a very good drawer, and he passed that on to me. He was a colonel in the Wehrmacht, and I was created during a visit. Somewhere in Thuringia.

For Frank Zander the East was too dark, for Frank Schöbel the West was too bright

Your parents, Mr. Zander, gave you three first names, one of which was Adolf. Like Adolf Hitler? Zander: Yes, Frank Kurt Adolf. Adolf like my Uncle Adolf, I had that erased for 600 marks. I don't know whether the name had anything to do with Hitler. My father looked after the V-rockets that Germany fired at England. I only found that out later; for a long time, I only knew the photos of him in uniform. It was all uncomfortable for me.

Schöbel: Should I perhaps tell you how we met?

Yes, tell us! Schöbel: I had a gig here in West Berlin at the Reichsbahn, which belonged to the GDR and whose employees also worked here in the West. We met in a restaurant and said: Man, we have to put on an event together. Frank and free. I'm Frank and you're free. I said, come with me to Sternberg! And then we both secretly went to Mecklenburg. You had to be back at the border by midnight; we just about managed it. Zander: The border guard congratulated me: We're proud of you! Driving through the East was new to me. Such small villages, all dark, with only the occasional light at the railroad crossing.

Schöbel: And the West was too bright for me; I was glad to be back at the dark Ostbahnhof. Then I knew I was home.

Have you ever considered staying in the West after a concert? Schöbel: My brother left after the uprising in 1953 because all his friends had already left. That was out of the question for me. I stayed. It's like a pastor who doesn't leave his congregation. I didn't want to leave my congregation. And that was the right thing to do. I would never have gotten that kind of position back in the West. You can see that with those who left. They didn't amount to anything over there.

Zander: You had all the opportunities in the GDR, you made films, did a lot of television.

You were a star.

Schöbel: But that’s not how I felt.

How did you feel then? Schöbel: Of course you want to be successful and loved, but is that why you should be a star? No. Zander: Success is a warm feeling. The worst thing is when people whistle. I once sang at a butchers' guild, and during "Nick Nack Man," a song with such dark humor, I suddenly felt such restlessness. And then a butcher's wife came up and gave me five cents. Please stop! That was terrible. Schöbel: I once performed in front of doctors and in a sketch I made a joke: AOK, all without money. Everyone's faces fell, total silence. I realized: Oh, you're in the wrong place. I was in a West Berlin hotel. Everyone was looking important. I don't fit in there anyway. Zander: With me, the drinkers are in the front row, and with you, the pretty girls.

Schöbel: Drinkers too.

Frank Schöbel's Wendehymne - written by a West German

Which song is your biggest hit for you?

Zander: " I drink to your health, Marie." And "Oh Susi," the East Germans really liked that one.

Schöbel: Others would say, "Like a star." But for me, "We don't need any more lies."

Your anthem for the fall of the Berlin Wall. When and where did you actually write it? Schöbel: 1988, in the West.

In the West?

Schöbel: Yes, the record was recorded in Hamburg. I wrote the music, the lyrics are by Bernd Meinunger. He was thinking about romantic relationships, I was thinking about the GDR. DT64, the youth radio station, played it after a speech by Education Minister Margot Honecker. Without commentary. It wasn't allowed to be played for a week, and it was also cut from the Kessel Buntes (a German folk music festival) after I signed the resolution of the rockers and songwriters against the ignorance of the party and state leadership. When I sing the song today at the "Frank Schöbel Story," my show in Dresden, people stand up and clap for a minute.

Because you were so brave back then? Schöbel: No, in protest. Not against the past, but against today. They feel ignored by the leaders again; they've had enough. Zander: Of what, actually? Everyone is doing much better. They have great cars, can go wherever they want. Schöbel: People aren't concerned with material things. Zander: But just look at other countries. We're really not gagged here; we can say whatever we think. Schöbel: As the saying goes, you can say something against the government, but if you say something against your boss, you're fired.

Zander: Now we're getting very political. All I can say is: I couldn't be better off than in this country.

Didn't you almost get kicked out of your apartment recently? Zander: There was trouble with the owner over our studio in the attic. But we still have our apartment. Schöbel: This isn't about the two of us. I don't sing for myself, but for the people, and I sense their displeasure.

Zander: You've always been a bit more political than I am. I'm political by inviting poor people to dinner at Christmas.

What are your experiences there? How are the poor doing in this city?

Zander: Poverty is increasing. People are selfish. Those who already have a lot want even more. Others are pushed out and end up living on the streets. There are many non-profit organizations that help. Our most pressing problem is sponsors. But again: We're both on the sunny side of things, we're lucky. You, Frank, were obviously even luckier with the girls. I was always just the one.

Frank Zander: “I was jealous when you had a younger woman again”

There's a big difference between you. You, Mr. Zander, have been married to the same woman for ages. You, Mr. Schöbel, have children by three different women. Zander: Sometimes I was a little jealous of you when you were with a younger woman again. But my wife is truly a fighter.

Schöbel: Every woman is a fighter. When two people break up, it's always both of their faults. Everything else is nonsense. In the past, people simply stayed together, even if they only argued.

What was the best time of your life? Zander: The early 80s. That's when we had hits, got record deals, and bought an apartment in Ibiza.

Schöbel: 1964, when I started singing, was a great time. 1971, when "Wie ein Stern" came out and I was allowed to travel to the West for the first time. Awesome. "Wir braucht keine Lügen mehr" was also a highlight. And in the 90s, when you and your son gave me a home in your music publishing company. You could have just said, I take care of myself, why am I still nursing a competitor?

Like all artists from the East, you had fewer gigs after reunification. Schöbel: Yes, and I didn't have any gigs in the West at all. To this day. Westerners don't like my music. I don't know why. My management is in Hamburg and also represents Helene Fischer. Zander: There's still a hint of the Trabi smell. The prejudices cling to it like burrs.

Schöbel: You can't force them. I always say, then I don't have to drive so far.

“Frank, you have to understand, we can only play one Eastern song per day.”

Does that bother you a lot? Schöbel: Let's put it this way: when the big stars from the West came on Kessel Buntes, we from the East were always a bit of a dud. When they left again, things went back to normal. It's still like that. And that's why it bothers me, but there's no point in getting upset. The head of a major broadcaster said to me: Frank, you have to understand, we broadcast nationwide, so we can only play one song from the East per day. He really said that. After 35 years of so-called unification. Zander: But the musicians from the East are the best. Your guitarist Stefan is unique. Man, you really have absolutely, 100 percent good people. Schöbel: Stefan Schirrmacher originally comes from Neumis Rock Circus, a fantastic band. Studied musicians, including Rainer Oleak on keyboards and Bimbo on bass. They split up when the Berlin Wall came down and everyone played elsewhere. Zander: Karat too, just great bands, they still get a lot of airplay. My songs from the early days aren't played anymore either; they're too perverse, too dark. I don't do big events anymore either. Do you still do them? Schöbel: Yes, all year round, and then Christmas concerts. The plan for 2026 is already set.

Zander: I have my paintings, which are doing very well. And when I do vernissages, i.e. exhibitions, I also sing a couple of songs. But I don't do concerts anymore.

Why not? Zander: Because it's too exhausting. I get incredibly frightened, I run around like a tiger, I'm afraid of failing. At some point I thought, no, that's it. My voice is ruined, too. Frank has a clear voice, mine is ruined.

Hasn't that been her style from the beginning? Is your raspy voice your trademark?

Zander: Yes, I had tonsillitis and still sang, but now I'm afraid it will go away completely.

Schöbel: May I say something else about our similarities?

Frank Schöbel plays Ü80: “Last week I scored two goals”

Sure! Schöbel: We've both written football anthems. I sang "Yes, football is round like the world" at the 1974 World Cup. Frank sang "We're just not going home" at Hertha. Zander: That's the Hertha anthem. And when everyone sings along, it's absolutely fantastic.

Schöbel: I'm on the other side, at Union. I wrote "Unzerstörbar Union" for my club.

But the Union anthem is by Nina Hagen: Eisern Union. Zander: Yes, although Nina doesn't care at all.

Schöbel: Another song of mine, called simply "Union," is often played. I don't find it that special. But oh well.

You play soccer yourself, Mr. Schöbel? Schöbel: I play in the over-80s team every Wednesday. Last week I scored two or three goals. We play for an hour and a half, and then it's the third half. Then we sit and chat. Zander: It's amazing you still do this. I'm too lazy, I sleep too long. My son says I'll take your car away; he gave me a bike to practice on. You have your soccer ball, you're fitter.

Schöbel: I also go to the gym twice a week and then to the sauna.

What's it like in an old men's team? Schöbel: One of them is only 75, he can still run properly! One has dementia and doesn't come anymore. Another's wife has dementia, and he doesn't come anymore either. It's almost become a national disease. I wrote a song about it.

Zander: A lot of people are dying now, a lot of people.

Do you sing at funerals? Both: No!

Schöbel: There are colleagues who enjoy doing that. I couldn't do that, and I don't really enjoy going there either.

Is it actually difficult to live a healthy life when you've spent your whole life on stage, going to the bar after concerts, drinking, and smoking? Schöbel: I've never smoked.

Zander: Me neither. But beer, yes, I need that.

Schöbel: After a concert, I sign autographs and then drive home. Two or three hours in the car is a good way to unwind. And I can sleep in my own bed. Zander: I sleep in the hotel; I want to enjoy it, including breakfast the next morning with the other musicians.

Schöbel: I don't eat much breakfast anyway. But of course, sitting together with colleagues in the morning is nice.

Frank Zander: “I don’t know anyone our age who has nothing.”

And how healthy are you, if I may ask? Schöbel: I only have one kidney. I had back problems once, too; two discs came out. But that was it. Zander: I have two new hips. And prostate cancer wasn't so funny either. And I had this really stupid illness where fluid accumulates in my brain. I've recovered well, I still walk a little bit with my left foot; as I said, I need to exercise more.

Schöbel: We are now talking about spare parts warehouses.

Zander: I mean, we're over 80, and I don't know anyone that age who has nothing. The most important thing is to enjoy life, get out there, and do something. That's why I say: Fingers crossed. We're still here.