INTERVIEW - «If Hitler were your uncle, you would want to kill him too,» says Ali Khamenei's nephew

Mahmoud Moradkhani's phone rings almost nonstop. The doctor and nephew of Ayatollah Khamenei has lived in exile in Paris for many years and is active in the resistance against the mullahs' regime. His mother, the ruler's sister, remained in Iran. She, too, is part of the opposition; as a close family member of Khamenei, she is protected from state repression. Since the launch of Israel's attacks on Iran, Mahmoud Moradkhani has been a sought-after man. The overthrow of the Islamic Republic, which he longs for, could be imminent.

Mr. Moradkhani, what were your first thoughts when you learned about Israel's attacks on Friday?

I regretted that things had come to this. I've been fighting against this regime for over 40 years and have always hoped that the overthrow would be achieved by means other than war. We were working toward creating a political force and a program that would give people hope, so that at some point there would be a popular uprising, a democratic revolution. My first thought after the Israeli attack was: We haven't achieved our goal, we have failed.

Now at least something is moving.

Now, we're seeing mostly destruction. If the bombings had only hit the regime, that wouldn't be so bad. But there are many civilian deaths, and the infrastructure is being severely damaged. Nevertheless, I hope the Israelis will see this through to the end. The regime must be overthrown, the Islamic Republic must disappear. If the regime somehow survives these attacks, Ali Khamenei will take merciless revenge. The retaliation against the people will be brutal. We've seen this before.

When?

When the Iran-Iraq war ended with the signing of the ceasefire on August 20, 1988, Ruhollah Khomeini, Khamenei's predecessor, ordered the execution of thousands of prisoners in Iran. I fear the same thing will happen again if the regime survives. People will be accused of distributing this or that video, of taking to the streets and chanting certain slogans. Two days ago, someone was executed who was alleged to be a spy for Israel.

We hear from Iran that the campaigns of revenge have long since begun and that numerous people have already been executed for alleged collaboration with Israel.

The problem is that Israel attacked completely unexpectedly, without any warning. Afterward, Israel called on the population to leave Tehran. But you can't simultaneously flee bombs and wage an uprising against the regime.

Your mother, Ali Khamenei's sister, is still in Iran. Do you have contact with her?

Not since Monday; the government shut down the internet. I don't know if the phone still works; I haven't tried it.

What did she say the last time you reached her?

Like many people, she is hopeful that the attacks will put an end to this regime. It's high time. Our family has been fighting against the Islamic Republic since day one, for 45 years. The overthrow of the regime would be a great relief for all of us.

As a close family member of the ruler, your mother has been protected from state repression until now. However, your sister was arrested three years ago after speaking out against the regime in a video message. How is she doing?

She was released on parole a few months after her arrest. They often do this, usually citing medical reasons for release. That's what happened to my sister, who had to undergo minor surgery. But they threatened her that she would be sent back to prison immediately if she expressed herself like that again. The regime uses these kinds of methods to intimidate people: They arrest them, keep them for a few months, and release them under strict conditions. They are then no longer allowed to travel, not even within the country, but must remain in Tehran.

Did your sister follow this?

Yes, she never made any political statements again. What else is left for her?

As a child and teenager, you were very close to your uncle Ali Khamenei. What do you think is going through his mind now that his power is under threat?

The same thing happened to all dictators in their final days, like Nicolae Ceausescu, Saddam Hussein, or Adolf Hitler. They continue to believe their own lies and are firmly convinced they did everything right. Their minds are completely deformed; they can no longer change their minds. It's like being in a cult. These people can no longer think differently.

So if Donald Trump calls on Khamenei to surrender, is that hopeless?

Yes, surrender is not an option for such people. Even the thought of it is impossible. Everything about these potentates is completely entrenched. Never in history has a dictator apologized. Psychopaths have no feelings.

When you were a child, Ali Khamenei was your favorite uncle. How could such a kind person change and become a ruthless murderer?

That thing about my favorite uncle happened a long time ago. It was like that before the 1979 revolution, but not after. Time changes people. This is especially true when you get into a position like Ali Khamenei's. When you lie incessantly, it does something to you. Hitler didn't believe in defeat, even when the situation for the Germans had long been hopeless. I'm a doctor, so I know: The neural structures in the brain develop over time. And it becomes very difficult to change them once they've modified and become fixed in a certain direction.

You last met Ali Khamenei in 1985, when you were 22 years old. What memories do you have of that?

Our family wanted to travel to Iraq via Turkey to visit my father, who had traveled there a year earlier to protest the Iraq War. But we didn't have permission to leave. So my mother and I went to see Khamenei, who was president at the time. He refused to let us leave, citing Parliament Speaker Rafsanjani, who was against it. It was a very formal meeting, very cold, and not particularly pleasant. Two months later, we left secretly anyway. That was my last contact with him. Before that, I remember most of all how, shortly after the 1979 revolution, I was allowed to accompany him on his first visit to the Ministry of Defense; he had been sent by Khomeini. I was 16 at the time. It is the only memory I have of the revolution.

Did your mother also break off contact?

She maintained a loose relationship until 2009. In 2009, after the election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, nationwide protests erupted by the so-called Green Movement. Until then, Khamenei maintained contact with the family, attending family celebrations at least once a year. After that, he stopped responding to invitations.

If the government falls, Khamenei won't survive. Does that weigh on you? After all, he's still your uncle.

It doesn't matter at all that he's my uncle! Imagine if Hitler were your uncle. You'd want to kill him, wouldn't you? I would do that even if he were my father. There are no feelings involved. It would probably be different if I shared his ideas. But I'm not like him, so I won't be sad when he dies. Quite the opposite. That's normal.

Three years ago, when the “Woman, Life, Freedom” protests in Iran were at their peak, you believed that the regime was about to end.

That was my hope. But the movement was developing in the wrong direction. Everything revolved solely around structural and social issues, not political ones. That couldn't end well. People only talked about women's rights, instead of how to overthrow the regime and what would happen afterward. Long-time fighters like me were excluded. We can't fight this regime with culture, by writing poems, performing dances, and doing other such things. That's not enough. There was no clear plan, no political program. And there were no personalities ready to take responsibility after a change of power. Without that, the people cannot be mobilized for an uprising. No one knew what would have happened after the government had been overthrown, how the country could have been transformed into a democracy. That, by the way, is still the problem now.

What do you think will happen if the regime falls in the next few days or weeks?

There are several possibilities. It could lead to anarchy, to war between different ethnic groups or political camps. The best scenario would be if the opposition members in prison were released and able to take power directly. We have enough people in prison who have political legitimacy. That would be much better than having people from outside who have been in exile for a long time come in. However, there is a risk that the regime could kill the political prisoners before its downfall. The prison doors would have to open quickly.

Dare to make a prediction: How long will the regime be able to hold on?

I can't. I'm not an analyst, just an observer. And even analysts have shown that their predictions are often wrong.