Her Latest Novel Is a No. 1 Bestseller. Here's Her Best Advice for Creative People Who Want to Turn Their Passion Into a Career.

This week's How Success Happens guest is a bestselling thriller writer who has been called "The Queen of Twists." So there was a 50/50 chance I would be murdered by the end of our chat...or maybe it was I who turned out to be the killer?

Spoiler alert: Neither of those things happened. But instead, Jeneva Rose, whose new novel, The Perfect Divorce, hit No. 1 on the New York Times bestseller list, shared incredible tips for creative people who are looking to turn their passion into a business.

Rose's background in marketing shapes every part of her writing, an edge that helped her turn her breakthrough novel, The Perfect Marriage, from a small press release into a bestseller. In this episode, Rose breaks down how she creates viral TikToks, her "binge-writing" approach to her books, and answers a question that has plagued this interviewer's mind: Do audiobooks count as reading?

You can listen to our conversation below, or on your podcast platform of choice. And check out highlights of our chat here, which have been edited for length and clarity.

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Congrats on The Perfect Divorce hitting No. 1. How does that feel? It feels surreal. My brain hasn't caught up.

Being No. 1 on the bestseller list is a pretty big sign of success, but how do you personally define success? It used to be the accolades of having the bestseller status, selling millions of copies and the big advances. But I think my definition of success changed about a year and a half ago, and it was when I was facing severe burnout. I didn't have the right team around me, so when I hit my breaking point, I knew I needed to make a change in order to continue this career. I changed up the whole team around me, and now I define success as being able to breathe, to have other people in the room speak on my behalf and to take a day off without feeling guilty that I should be doing something to progress my career. That's what success is.

When The Perfect Marriage first came out, you weren't yet a known writer. As you wrote the follow-up, were you keenly aware that every sentence you typed was likely going to be read by millions of people?It's the same thing when I create my videos for social media or write my books. I forget that other people are going to read or see it. I write my books for me. The first book I ever wrote was literally for myself. I was not trying to get published. It was to work through the grief of losing my mother.

What were you doing before you became a writer?I was a global senior social media manager, so I actually wrote my first four or five books while working full-time. The job was basically 8 to 5, so I wrote during nights and weekends. I would do these big writing sessions where I worked from 10 a.m. to 9 p.m. I continue to do that even though I've been a full-time author since March of 2021. I feel like if I'm binge-writing it, that makes it bingeable for a reader.

Can you tell us a bit about how you map your thrillers out? Or do you make it up as you go along?I will not start writing a book until I can summarize it in a sentence or two, so it has that very commercial hook. I enjoy writing the back marketing copy, so that's the second piece I write before I start the story. Then I do my character sketches and my setting sketches, so I feel like I really know them. That's all my research. I do a little bit of an outline, but never for the entire book, because I want the story to be able to change and the characters to breathe and not to be stuck with this outline. So sometimes I surprise myself. I usually know the big twists, but other small twists and reveals are usually surprises that I did not intend to write. They came out during a writing sprint.

Success doesn't often come easily — any advice you can share about dealing with rejection? Well, not to brag, but I've had over 400 rejections in my career. But from the very beginning, I knew not to take it personally. I knew this was a creative career, and rejection was inevitable. So I treated every "no" as a "not right now" or a "noble attempt." Now that I've had agents and editors who rejected me back then want to work with me now, I never treat it as, "Oh no, I'm going to be spiteful." I think everything happens for a reason. If it happened a different way, I wouldn't have the career I have right now. Maybe even the books I've written would be different, or I wouldn't have as many under my belt if I didn't have to work so hard and long to make all this happen.

Can you talk about the marketing breakthrough you had for The Perfect Marriage with TikTok?I had a very small publisher, and there was no marketing budget. I know that I was going to be the one who had to market it. So I got on Instagram and Facebook. Then I saw TikTok, and at the time, it was considered an app for teens dancing. But I scrolled around and I realized, no, there are other things on here. People are clamoring for community. They want to share their likes and dislikes. So I started marketing my book on there, and one of my first videos got five million views and ended up shooting The Perfect Marriage up to No. 3 on Amazon. So I started growing a readership from that. But I knew that I did not want to just keep marketing my books. I wanted to be able to actually connect with my readers, share parts of my life — my husband, my dogs, behind the scenes, my humor and my personality. I made sure that it wasn't just transactional. It was more about creating a community between me and my readers.

What was the video about?It created a BookTok trend. I pretended that I was the protagonist in my book, and told everyone that my husband was accused of murder and that his mistress was the victim. Then I held up my book and said, "Actually, this is the plot of my new book." It just hooked people. It doesn't really work anymore because other authors have done it. Publishers even did it. Readers did it about their favorite books. So it got very saturated. Now I try to be as natural as possible when I'm on camera.