Full transcript of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," July 13, 2025

On this "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:

• Sens. Richard Blumenthal, Democrat of Connecticut, and Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina
• Sen. Maria Cantwell, Democrat of Washington
• Sen. Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky
• Rep. French Hill, Republican of Arkansas

Click here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."

MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan.

And this week on Face the Nation: One year ago today, a shooter in Butler, Pennsylvania, killed one man and nearly assassinated Donald Trump. We will have a look at the new findings on what went wrong in an exclusive interview with the Senate chairman behind it.

There are still questions about what motivated the shooter at that Trump rally in Butler and also the miscommunication and poor planning on the part of the Secret Service and other law enforcement agencies.

(Begin VT)

DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): There were mistakes made and that shouldn't have happened. But I was satisfied in terms of the bigger plot, the larger plot. I was satisfied.

(End VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: The chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, Senator Rand Paul, joins us with the conclusions from his new report.

In Texas, the grueling task of cleanup and recovery continues 10 days after massive flooding killed at least 129 people, with dozens more still missing. Was it a preventable tragedy? We will talk with Washington's Maria Cantwell.

With Russian attacks on Ukraine intensifying and the president's increasing annoyance with Vladimir Putin, we will get an update from the two senators pushing for punishing sanctions on Russia, South Carolina Republican Lindsey Graham and Connecticut Democrat Richard Blumenthal.

Finally, House Financial Services Committee Chairman French Hill will be here to talk about his plans to make the complicated world of cryptocurrency go mainstream.

It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation. We have a lot to get to this morning.

So, let's begin with Senator Lindsey Graham in Clemson, South Carolina, and Senator Richard Blumenthal in Bridgeport, Connecticut. They both just returned from Europe, where they met with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy.

Good morning to you both, Senators.

SENATOR RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-Connecticut): Good morning.

(CROSSTALK)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Graham, I want to start with you.

Russia is escalating. They're not ending this war in Ukraine.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-South Carolina): Yes, right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: NATO's Secretary-General is going to be here in Washington this week, and will be meeting with President Trump, who is, according to our reporting, considering fresh funding for Ukraine.

That would be the first time since he's taken office. What do you know about what is coming?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, I don't want to get ahead of the president, but I'm having dinner, along with Senator Blumenthal and other senators, with Secretary-General Mark Rutte tomorrow night.

A turning point regarding Russia invasion of Ukraine is coming. For months, President Trump has tried to entice Putin to the peace table. He's put tariffs against countries that allow fentanyl to come in our country, other bad behavior. He's left the door open regarding Russia. That door is about to close.

Dick and I have got 85 co-sponsors in the United States Senate for congressional sanctions with a sledgehammer available to President Trump to go after Putin's economy and all those countries who prop up the Putin war machine. China, India, and Brazil buy oil and petroleum products and other goods from Russia. That's the money Putin uses to prosecute the war.

And this congressional package that we're looking at would give President Trump the ability to impose 500 percent tariffs on any country that helps Russia and props up Putin's war machine. He can dial it up or down. He can go to zero, to 500. He has maximum flexibility.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: But we're going after the people who keep Putin in business and additional sanctions on Russia itself. This is truly a sledgehammer available to President Trump to end this war.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Blumenthal, on those sanctions, the president said he expects the Senate to pass this measure you put together. And he described being able to terminate it "as totally at my option. It very respectfully lets the president do whatever he wants" and decide whether or not to exercise it.

I know that has raised some concerns among your fellow Democrats, like Senators Kaine and Senator Coons. How do you assure them that this is as tough as you promise?

SENATOR RICHARD BLUMENTHAL: This has to be a critical moment for these sanctions. And bringing down this sledgehammer at this moment was emphasized by all of the European allies who were at the meeting that Senator Graham and I attended in Europe.

They are absolutely in solidarity. One after another in that closed-door setting expressed the view that these sanctions have to be tough and rigorous to change behavior.

And so the waiver language that we will have in this bill is very much alike the provisions that have existed in past similar measures that give the president the ability to act in the national security, but also provide congressional oversight. And I think that kind of assurance to my Democratic colleagues is very important.

But what is most important, I think, at this moment, is our unity. Senator Graham and I, Republican and Democrat, coming together, the European leaders with diverse views, also in unity. And we want to make use of the seized assets, again, in a unified way.

I think a multifaceted approach here is the only way to bring Putin to the table, because he's a thug. He understands only force.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But just to follow up on that, the – the seized assets, there's, what, $300 billion in Europe. There's about $5 billion here in the United States. Do you get the sense that the president is going to be willing to tap that and that the European leaders are going to be willing to seize and use that money?

SENATOR RICHARD BLUMENTHAL: Part of the plan that I think will be sought in this meeting involving the secretary-general is for Ukraine to be given assets by NATO and their purchasing those military assets from the United States.

But the seized property, the seized assets from Russia, can be accessed by the Europeans. They are devising a plan to do it, at least for a part of those assets, billions of dollars, and the interest that is derived from them, very, very important resources for Ukraine. And the $5 billion that the United States has also could be accessed, and I think it's time to do it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we'll be talking to one of the congressmen who put together that law to be able to seize those assets later in the program.

Senator Graham, I want to ask you, on the battlefield and when it comes to weapons, CBS' Jim LaPorta has learned, a recent defense intelligence assessment shows Ukraine's shortfall in artillery and in drones will lead to marked Russian territorial gains in 2026, with Russia gaining 7-1 firepower superiority by this winter.

How can you get them what they need if Congress will not approve in the House any new funding? Is it what Senator Blumenthal just laid out?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, just stay tuned for tomorrow's announcement.

The idea of America selling weapons to help Ukraine is very much in play. We've given Ukraine a lot. We have given them money. We give them military aid. We now have a minerals agreement with Ukraine that's worth trillions of dollars. So, I don't want to get ahead of the president, but stay tuned about seized assets.

The Europeans want to limit the interest on the assets to go to Ukraine. Secretary Bessent wants to go further. Stay tuned about a plan to go after the seized assets more aggressively. Stay tuned for a plan where America will begin to sell to our European allies tremendous amounts of weapons that can benefit Ukraine.

Putin has calculated that we would get tired and Europe would get weary. He made a huge mistake. NATO is bigger and stronger, and we're more committed to ever to make sure he does not take Ukraine by force. So, Congress is on the verge of passing the most consequential sanction package in the history of the – of the country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: It will give President Trump tools he doesn't have today, a literal sledgehammer. And the big offenders here is China, India, and Brazil. India buys oil from Russia cheap and resells it. That's despicable.

I am – I have talked to President Trump. He said last week, it's time to move. He's tried to entice Putin to the table. But my goal is to end this war.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: And the only way you're going to end this war is to get people who prop up Putin, make them choose between the American economy and helping Putin. And you can only have one negotiator, and that's going to be President Trump, with maximum flexibility to end this war.

China, India, and Brazil, you're about to get hurt big time if you keep helping Putin.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But, Senator, respectfully, the president's rhetoric has changed this week on Russia. He is making clear his patience is very thin.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But he's got right now at his fingertips…

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: … just short of $4 billion in presidential drawdown authority. He doesn't need to ask Congress. He doesn't need to ask the Europeans for that money. He's got it if he wants to tap it.

Wouldn't it be a stronger sign if he just sent those weapons or surged them?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well – well, the $4 billion is not nearly enough. I expect him to exercise that drawdown authority.

But the game regarding Putin's invasion of Russia is about to change. I expect, in the coming days, you will see weapons flowing at a record level to help Ukraine defend themselves. I expect in the coming days that there will be tariffs and sanctions available to President Trump he has never had before.

I expect in the coming days more support from Europe regarding their efforts to help Ukraine. Putin made a miscalculation here. For six months, President Trump tried to entice Putin to the table. The attacks have gone up, not down. One of the biggest miscalculations Putin has made is to play Trump.

And you just watch. In the coming days and weeks, there's going to be a massive effort to get Putin to the table. And to those who are helping him, China, buying cheap Russian oil and having no accountability, those days are about over.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Blumenthal, on – on Ukraine, North Korea has been sending troops, as you know, to fight for Russia in Ukraine. Russia's top diplomat was just meeting with Kim Jong-un.

We know that the missile technology Russia is providing them is sort of their payment for sending bodies to fight. Is that going to make a measurable difference in the North Korean nuclear program? Is there more of a threat today to the U.S. because of it?

SENATOR RICHARD BLUMENTHAL: The threat of cooperation on that score, in sending missile technology to North Korea, as well as support for Iran that potentially could come from Russia, is a major piece of evidence why we need to be strong with our allies against this axis.

It still exists. The success against Iran's nuclear program ought not to make us complacent about the dangers of proliferating nuclear arms. And, absolutely, yes, we should be coming down stronger, not only on Russia, but North Korea.

And our plan has to be to deter this kind of nuclear arms cooperation, which is why our working with our allies is so important.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR RICHARD BLUMENTHAL: As they went around the room, these are the major European leaders, all of them, assembled together last Thursday in Rome, thanking us for being there, Senator Graham and myself, and General Kellogg representing Trump.

This moment of unity must be seized, and the timing is absolutely critical. President Zelenskyy has been robust and stalwart, but his people are being killed by bombs and drones, children kidnapped. We need to really express the strength of the United States, because only strength can get Putin to the table.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Graham, on another topic here, you have been an advocate for the allies of the United States who were left behind in Afghanistan following that chaotic 2021 withdrawal by the last administration.

On Friday, the State Department laid off the personnel in the department that helps place those refugees and other allies in the United States. Two sources with direct knowledge told CBS that there are about 1,400 Afghan allies with connections to the Pentagon, with connections to U.S. intelligence, and they're stuck there.

They don't know what's happening next. Can you stop them from being sent back to the Taliban?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, I don't think there's any desire by anybody to send people who helped us in Afghanistan back to the Taliban control. That's not going to happen.

As to trimming up the State Department, if you're telling me we can't reduce the number of people working in the State Department and still run it effectively, I don't buy that. We can do both.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well – well, there are some questions about who's going to actually help prevent them from going back to Afghanistan, which is why I was asking you that if you're going to advocate on their behalf.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Sure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Blumenthal, you sit on the Judiciary Committee, I believe.

CBS has reported yesterday that the attorney general, Pam Bondi, fired 20 DOJ employees who worked on the classified documents cases and the January 6 investigations. There are more firings expected. These are career officers and lawyers who don't pick their assignments. They're handed out to them.

Is there anything that Congress can do to protect some of these civil servants?

SENATOR RICHARD BLUMENTHAL: Margaret, that's a really important question, because Pam Bondi has so politicized and weaponized the Department of Justice, and now firing these career professionals who have devoted their lives to the Department of Justice, it's only one facet of the continuing politicization.

And, yes, Congress ought to be investigating. The Judiciary Committee ought to begin right away its inquiry. But I'm calling for an inspector general investigation, not only of these firings, but also of the dropping of a prosecution into the Utah physician who was mid-trial on charges of conspiracy, fraud against the government in connection with a COVID vaccine scheme, apparently at the behest of politicians who were deeply angry about the MAGA issue there.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR RICHARD BLUMENTHAL: And I believe strongly that now Congress must investigate.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Graham, do you want to quickly respond to those allegations of politicized handling up at the Justice Department?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, you all missed a lot.

The Justice Department was used to destroy President Trump, his family, and tried to change the election by bringing a bunch of B.S. charges against him for years. We're going to clean that mess up. As to Pam Bondi, I have all the confidence in the world she will do her job. And if somebody has been terminated, they have rights under civil service law to say it was wrongfully done.

But I'm almost amused at the idea that people are now suddenly worried about politicization of the Justice Department, while everybody sat quiet for all those years. Literally, the Justice Department under Biden tried to change…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: … the election by prosecuting Trump based on a bunch of B.S.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, there are mass firings, which is why I was asking you about them, sir.

Senators, thank you for joining us for a bipartisan interview…

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: … up until that last section.

(LAUGHTER)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Appreciate it.

SENATOR RICHARD BLUMENTHAL: Well, we're so used…

(LAUGHTER)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're joined now by Senator Maria Cantwell, who is the top Democrat on the Commerce Committee, which has oversight of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA, and the National Weather Service.

Good morning, Senator.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL (D-Washington): Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: These agencies are being looked at carefully right now, as you know.

Just this morning in Texas, we are seeing the National Weather Service issue another flash flood warning for that very same part of Central Texas, Kerrville. In fact, the ground search for victims had to be halted because of this warning.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: There's been so much scrutiny of what went wrong or what more could have been done. In your view, at the federal level, is the National Weather Service doing everything it should be doing?

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: You mean at this moment? At this moment…

(CROSSTALK)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Did it function as intended?

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Well, I think what – what's happening here – and we need to take a pause. Glad the president and first lady went. And, definitely, there's a lot of things being said.

But what the real question is, is, what can we do to improve the weather forecasting of this nation, to use science, to use better assets, to really do a once-in-a-lifetime investment to upgrade the system so that we could have given people in Kerrville a – more time, more warning? And the same for tornadoes and hurricanes and fires.

And so I think what we're learning is that, in this last week, we've had four events that have all broken huge records for weather and precipitation. That means more flooding. So we know now we're having more extreme weather. What is our response to that to make sure we never have another Kerrville again?

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, more extreme weather, more stresses on the system.

At the same time, you have the Trump administration at least proposing that they're going to do a 27 percent budget cut to NOAA. The commerce secretary, though, said he's not going to touch public forecasting.

We've seen, though, on the Democratic side, Leader Schumer say there should be an investigation about whether staff cuts, for example, led to or contributed to the Texas disaster. Are Democrats being too quick here to blame the politics?

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: You know, I liked your…

MARGARET BRENNAN: You're not.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: I liked your opening story about the GAO report and saw what my colleagues presented. You know, I was on that call the day the president was shot and basic – shot, and bas…

MARGARET BRENNAN: You're talking about Butler.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: In Butler.

And I basically asked the question on the call that day, did you guys use drones? There was like dead silence.

So I'm glad now that GAO, a respected arm of our organization and government, is producing a report. Do you want the same kind of report a year from now? Yes. What we want is to make sure that we understand what happened. But doing blame gaming isn't going to bring people back.

But the press has every right to ask hard questions to try to figure out, what – what do we need to do to improve weather forecasting? So…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I ask that because the DNC and Democratic leaders have said things like this. You're talking in substantial, specific…

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Yes, yes. And let…

MARGARET BRENNAN: … policy language. That's not what's coming from leadership. That's why I'm asking.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Well, what's important to know is that, in this particular storm, what we had is very warm surface conditions in the Gulf.

We had – that meant the storm was going to move slower. It meant it was going to drop more precipitation. We as a nation shouldn't be second to Europe or anybody in being a weather-ready nation. We should be the smartest government in the world, using technology, analyzing the data and putting a forecast system into place that gives people that kind of system.

So, just recently, in – in the Midwest, that work by NOAA and the weather forecasting system and the labs helped give information about how to get out of the way of a tornado two hours in advance, not 15 minutes or 13 minutes, but two hours.

And I'm going to send a letter to the president making five recommendations, and some of them are very bipartisan recommendations, things that Senator Cruz or Wicker or Moran support, that basically make this once-in-a-lifetime investment, so we have the best information, the best analysis, the best people to interpret that on the ground for the local responders.

And let's help Americans get out of the way of a storm.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, on that point, in your recommendations, we are still seeing a proposed budget cut, we are still seeing staff cuts, and the administration is talking about privatizing parts of NOAA.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Can you do all of that and then accomplish the outcome you're asking for?

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Well, I think that's what we're going to try to draw attention to.

Senator Cruz and I both support upgrading our Doppler radar system. That is having a system that gives you more information about what the storm is likely to do. It's one of the reasons why Europe is a little ahead of us and you hear about their forecasting system is because they do more analytics around data that give them higher predictability.

I think we're in the same place. Let's get the best system in the country. Senator Wicker and I support these ocean buoys. Those buoys tell you the temperature of the ocean. Why was that so important in this case? Because you needed to know. That temperature tells you how – how much that storm might move or hold in a pattern and how much precipitation it might move forward and dump in a community.

So…

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you believe this has to happen at the federal level? It's not a state-led response in that way – or forecasting, rather?

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Well, this is – this is a national responsibility.

And I think of, you know, if you want your snow shoveled, yes, you want the mayor to show up.

(LAUGHTER)

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: But if you want accurate weather information, it's not community to community. It's a national system. And we share that with the local people and help them best respond.

And, today, my state has a red flag warning out. It's right on the – in "The Seattle Times," telling the whole state, very bad conditions today, very hot temperatures, very high winds. That means a fire could be explosive.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, so a lot of warning ahead of time.

Let's talk more about this on the other side of this break.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Stay with us, if you will.

We'll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: If you're looking for more Face the Nation, including extended interviews and special content, you can visit our YouTube page.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.

We returned to our conversation with Senator Maria Cantwell.

Just to pick up where we left off in talking about how to at least warn people further in advance of potential weather related disasters, you know, there is still no Senate confirmed head of NOAA. You did go through with a hearing on the committee very recently. And the nominee, Dr. Jacobs, told you that the main mission will still be preserved under this administration. Do you feel comfortable in the potential leadership of Dr. Jacobs? Will you vote to confirm?

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL (D-WA): I haven't decided yet. I – I have to see, for the record. He did say some very positive things that he wanted a NOAA organic (ph) act. He wants the weather act that Senator Cruz and I have proposed. He said he wanted some other resources there.

I've got to drill down on exactly what he things is going to happen on the science mission and how we're going to preserve that because the nation is now spending billions of dollars on storms. In fact, Susan Collins and I had a report from GAO a few – in the last year that showed how much we were spending on the impacts of – of climate and extreme weather. So, the point is, it's a minuscule investment to keep some of these science research functions at NOAA to help them better prepare people for hurricanes, for tornadoes and floods. It's a minuscule amount of money.

And so we want to be smarter about it. And the more you can move people and resources out of the way of a storm, the more you can predict what might happen, the better prepared we're going to be. And that's going to help us save lives and certainly save dollars.

So, I want to – I want to get from him exactly how he thinks that this is – is going to work. But he did say some positive things about the structure. People don't understand, but NOAA is really a science arm of our government to make all of this for the nation and the Weather Service. So, they literally have to fund the hurricane hunters. Those are the planes that fly into a hurricane.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: And we've helped support that in the past in a bipartisan way. It basically funds these – the research that really, I think, probably where Europe is right now is they just do better analysis of the data.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: They're not doing anything extraordinarily better than us. They're probably just spending more time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: And if that is a few million dollars and supercomputing time, we should do it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Speaking of Europe and the trade conversation the president has renewed just on Saturday, saying he's going to put tariffs on the European Union and up them on – on Mexico as well by August the 1st.

You know, there's been a lot of concern about what it would do to the economy. The stock market seems to be brushing off the impact.

Out in your state, Boeing, a huge contributor to the U.S. economy, is headquartered there. In fact, they had a 27 percent increase of airplane deliveries in June, eight to China because there's been this sort of cooling off with them.

If that's on the back burner, are you less concerned about the trade war?

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Oh, no, no. No. No, I'm – I'm very concerned we're in a endless summer of trade war tariffs and chaos. I'm very concerned about this. It is impacting our businesses. We are one of the most trade - dependent states in the nation. But it's impacting our ports. I mean, literally, trade with our ports is, you know, at least 20 percent down over last year, in the month of May, from the previous year.

The Association of Washington business is releasing a study that they've previewed with us. And of their membership, 75 percent of them have said they already are impacted by the tariffs. About –

MARGARET BRENNAN: These are like medium-sized businesses or –

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Yes, there are probably a few would define as – as large, but they're – they're saying that – 30 percent of them are saying that they basically have already raised costs in – in some way. And 15 percent of them said, we've either laid off people or are planning to lay of people in the future.

So, for us, we are seeing the economic impacts of this and our competitiveness, even though people have planned with storing a lot of material, you know, getting supplies in, trying to prepare for this, this up and down, you know, is really having an effect on costs.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, for – it sounds like you're saying at this point, we haven't yet seen fully or felt fully the economic impact. So, for the market to be betting that the president is either going to back down or that this isn't as hurtful as some predicted, you're saying, just wait and see?

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Oh, I think the market has been very clear. When he says he's going forward with tariffs, they don't like it, and you see a drop.

And – and – and – and when he takes a pause that – but that's not the issue. The issue is small business. We have – you know, 75 percent of jobs are created by small businesses. And those small businesses don't have the same flexibility that a big company does –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: To move out of the way of a supply chain that is now being disrupted or, you know, there was a Japanese company, a big supplier to U.S. auto manufacturing, that went out of business. So, we now have aluminum prices that affects everything from our transportation infrastructure investment, to, you know, I – I heard on Amazon that tea kettles went up, you know, like 40 or 50 percent in cost.

So, it's affecting all sorts of products.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: And, you know, while we may not see all of that at this moment, I guarantee you, as the next quarter results come in, I'm sure we will see some effects of these tariffs.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: So, let's get back to using our alliances to create

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: You know, why aren't we working with Europe right now to counter, you know, Russia –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Instead of being in an argument with them on some of these issues that could be resolved in a different form.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will see if an agreement is reached before August the 1st.

Senator, thank you very much for joining g us today.

SENATOR MARIA CANTWELL: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be right back with more FACE THE NATION.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to the chair of the Homeland Security Committee, Senator Rand Paul, who joins us from Bowling Green, Kentucky.

Good morning to your, Senator.

SENATOR RAND PAUL (R-KY): Thank you. Thank you for having me.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Today is that one year mark since then candidate Trump was shot at in Butler, Pennsylvania. You have released an accountability report. We've had a look at it. And it details that assets were requested by the Secret Service, including requests made over the phone, and they were denied. You also say that the former Secret Service director made false claims under oath when Kimberly Cheatle said there were no denials. Was she misled or are you accusing her of lying?

SENATOR RAND PAUL: She did not tell the truth. She said that there were no assets that were requested in advance. We found at least four occasions, actually maybe five occasions where requests were made.

The primary request that was made by both Trump's Secret Service detail, as well as his campaign, was for counter snipers. Counter snipers were denied until Butler. So, thank God, on that day, in Butler County, Pennsylvania, that was the first time he was allowed counter snipers. If he had not had counter snipers, that assassin would have popped up again – he did pop up again to continue firing, and that's when he was taken out. But thank God we had the counter snipers there. But why were they denied for months and months. When they finally did ask for them, they mysteriously, magically appeared. They found them where they needed. They just weren't trying hard enough.

So, it was a cascade of errors. It was just one error after another. When we talk to the people in charge of security, everybody pointed a finger at someone else. We said, who is responsible for the roof? The roof where the assassin lay with a direct sight line. Nobody wanted responsibility. Everybody said it was somebody else. There was plenty of time to take him off the stage. The suspicious person with a range finder who because the shooter, many times he was spotted by police with suspicion. That should have been enough to take the president off the stage.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR RAND PAUL: Even with him on the roof, there was about a three- minute period when he could have been taken on the stage, and yet no one was fired. Some of these people could be in charge of security for another presidential candidate. And really that's a danger that some one – someone of the people that were in charge at Butler could be in charge again. That's not right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well – well, the president of the United States has said he is satisfied with the answers he's received in regard to what went wrong. But back on the point about not telling the truth to Congress. The report found that there were 10 occasions where resources were requested or denied or not filled. And, in fact, when it came to Butler, the countersurveillance drone request was made over the phone.

So, when you say someone is not telling the truth, is it that there was no record of request and denials? Was this knowingly misleading Congress? Or was this like a culture of cover-up within the agency?

SENATOR RAND PAUL: I think it was a cultural cover-up for the agency. They did not want to assess blame. They did not want to look internally. And they wanted to discount any of their actions that might have led to this. This was a cover your ass sort of moment. And I do believe that they did know. There's no way that the director of Secret Service, that she did not know that these requests had been made.

And so, yes, it was a huge failure. And if you talk to the current head of the Secret Service, who is Trump's lead detail, and Trump has a great deal of confidence in, he'll admit that these failures existed.

But even the disciplinary action that they finally took, they only took because I subpoenaed. I wanted to know, who is disciplined. We weren't going to release the names. But I wanted to know, who was disciplined and what the discipline was. They refused for a year to tell me that. They told me that a week ago. You saw the news reports.

But some of the people were just disciplined two weeks ago. So, they weren't going to discipline anybody until I subpoenaed and asked them what they had done. But, in the end, no one was fired.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR RAND PAUL: And the supervisor who heard about the person on the roof, who did not tell the detail immediately to take the president off the stage, there was a several minute delay there, he stayed in his job. He did retire recently, but stayed in his job.

So, no, I think even the investigation by the Secret Service was inadequate. But that's why we need to have congressional oversight.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you going to request that all – all requests for assets be made in writing and not over the phone so people can deny that they were ever asked for help?

SENATOR RAND PAUL: Yes, I think they were made in writing as well. And I think some were made by phone. But I think the ones that were made by phone were following up on things they made in writing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Got it.

SENATOR RAND PAUL: Somebody was just begging for – for assets.

And think about it. President Trump has had extraordinary rallies. No matter what political perspective you come from, he has extraordinary rallies which have ordinary risk. Much better – much greater risk than having, you know, 200 people in an auditorium where everybody's thoroughly screened and the location is secure. These things really take a lot of detail. But when we ask the Secret Service, who was in charge of the roof? How could you walk through at 3:00 in the afternoon and see the roof? Nobody walked through. Nobody was in charge. Everybody said, oh, she was in charge of the roof, or he was in charge of the roof. No one would actually admit to being in charge of security for Butler.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, they're – the – the big, beautiful bill that the president asked for gives $1.2 billion to the Secret Service. Does money fix that? And what do you say to the family member of – of the gentleman killed that day? Are we ever going to know the motive of the shooter?

SENATOR RAND PAUL: You know, I think we aren't going to know the motive. And I take that at face value. I know a lot of times, when we don't get something and we suspect something, we think government's lying to us.

And, look, I have my doubts about government on many levels. But I think, on this level, they've tried their best. And I don't think there's a secret answer that they're not revealing to us. I think they just don't know.

What we do know is the failures in security and that Corey Comperatore could have possibly been saved by having better security that day. And this boy was seen four hours before the shooting. He was seen again 45 minutes before. Three minutes before the crowd, the crowd is chanting, "man on a roof, man on a roof." Forty-five seconds to go as he's assembling his gun. Forty-five seconds is a long time.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR RAND PAUL: Nobody told them to take the president off the stage. Inexcusable, terrible security. But whoever is in charge should have been fired and really should never be in charge of this type of – or have this type of responsibility again.

MARGARET BRENNAN: On the question of forewarning, but on a different topic, this Friday is the deadline for both the Senate and House to vote on a plan to claw back about $9 billion for foreign aid, including also support for NPR and PBS. Some of your fellow Republicans, like Rounds, like Murkowski and Collins have said they are worried about cuts to local radio and public broadcasters in their areas. We looked, and in your state of Kentucky, public broadcasters provide critical emergency warnings for the government. If there's a storm, for example.

Are you concerned that these kind of cuts are going to endanger people?

SENATOR RAND PAUL: You know, I got my start on public television, KET, in Kentucky, being a commentator for my tax payer group that I started. So, you know, I am not an enemy of public TV. But at the same time, we have a $2 trillion deficit. And what we'll be presented with is a $9 billion cut in spending. And, can we and should we at least start cutting $9 billion, yes. If I had my druthers and I could plan it and I could present the package, I like the idea of across- the-board cuts of a smaller percentage. So, instead of taking 100 percent of public TV, what you do is you take 6 percent of everything.

But the only way that works is you literally have to take 6 percent of every dollar, and then you have to figure out how to make it work so it's not absorbed by the poor or the needy in our country. And you could do that. With a penny plan, you can balance your budget within six – within five years. But it takes a real 6 percent cut of everything.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR RAND PAUL: But I think people are more willing to accept a haircut on things they like if everybody is accepting the same sort of level of cut.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, are you saying there that you are still going to vote for this? Are there 51 Republicans who are going to vote to cut all this funding and pull it back?

SENATOR RAND PAUL: I suspect it's going to be very close. I don't know if it will be modified in advance. But I cannot really honestly look Americans in the face and say that I'm going to be doing something about the deficit if I can't cut 9 billion. Even though there are people who make arguments for it, and I can make an argument for a different way to cut it, we're going to be presented with a $9 billion cut and a $2.2 trillion deficit. So, we have to cut spending. We absolutely have to cut spending.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And a – and a record boost to the debt ceiling that just happening in the bill you did not vote for, but Republicans did.

Senator Paul, thank you for your time today.

We'll be right back.

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MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Congressman French Hill. He is the chair of the House Financial Services Committee.

Welcome back to the broadcast.

Your ears must have been ringing with the two senators who started the program because they were talking about grabbing some of those frozen Russian assets. You moved a bill and gave the president authority to actually seize them during the last administration under the Repo Act. The U.S. has never before seized central bank assets from another country.

Do you know of the Treasury Department is going to do so now?

REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL (R-AR): Well, Margaret, it's good to be with you.

Yes, I certainly worked very hard with former Foreign Affairs Chairman Mike McCaul and others to put that in our 2024 national security package during the Biden administration because we wanted another arrow in the quiver for the president to not just seize those assets, but to convert them to the benefit of Ukraine, but we could never get consensus between the United States and Europe for doing that, despite a unanimous vote of the council - - the parliamentary assembly of the council of Europe supporting it.

So, I continued to urge President Biden to do that. We got the interest of those frozen assets to benefit Ukraine. But I think it's time for the president to convert those seized assets to a trust account for the benefit of Ukraine. I'm glad to hear both Senators Blumenthal and Graham support that idea. It's time to do it. And I've encouraged Secretary Bessent that this should be a priority for President Trump.

MARGARET BRENNAN: On another topic, because you have some oversight in the financial space, I want to ask you about comments made in regard to Fed Chair Jerome Powell.

The president says the economy is in good shape, but he still complains about the – the head of the central bank. Says he's doing a terrible job because he's not lowering interest rates.

On another network today, the president's top economic advisor said the White House is looking into whether the president has the authority to fire Chair Powell. Do you believe the president has the power and authority to fire the Fed president?

REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: You know, Margaret, I don't. And I believe President Trump has spoken about this several times over the past two years, including recently. Mr. Powell's governorship, his chairmanship, is up next spring. The president has vacancies coming up on the Fed board, where he could name another governor.

But, look, just because Congress created the Fed and the – we believe that it should be independent in the setting of monetary policy, it doesn't mean that it's immune from criticism. And every president since World War II has had choice words for the Fed chair when they've not been in sync with the direction of the president.

And so, look, Congress continues to do oversight. I set up a special task force to oversee the Fed's decision-making since the 2008 financial crisis. We have the investigation review and oversight underway. And we'll continue it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I think you'd acknowledge that most presidents might have had those choice words behind closed doors, not on social media posts, on a regular basis, Congressman.

But on crypto, I want to as you, crypto has been the wild west, right, in many ways because they don't have the same kind of regulation in the digital asset space that there does exist for banks and financial services. You've got a few measures coming up this week. How do you make sure, as you put these regulations in place that kind of help crypto become more mainstream, that it doesn't also benefit some of those on the black market, for example, who use this to evade oversight?

REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: Exactly. Well, in the work in the Senate, led by Bill Haggerty and Tim Scott and Cynthia Lummis on the Genius Act, to create a dollar-backed stable coin, we've heavily influenced that legislation over the two years of previous work by the House. In our Clarity Act, which sets up the rules of the road for what's a commodity, what's a security, how to use digital assets, how to store them, how to (INAUDIBLE) them, these are the rules that will protect consumers. We'll limit access to our market and our investors from entities outside the United States trying to influence the crypto market. We have none of that today.

What we've had is a mismatch of rules by enforcement in the Biden administration. And I believe the bills we'll have on the House floor this week will protect investors, consumers and make American, as President Trump wants, a leader in financial technology and crypto and digital assets innovation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But, you know, sir, that the concern is that this is the patina of protection of consumers without actual muscle behind it. It was interesting to see, and many Americans who hold mortgages might have noticed, that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, who buy and sell mortgages, that the head of the agency, the Federal Housing Agency, Bill Pulte, told them, they'll have to prepare a proposal to review crypto as an asset on mortgage applications. Given the huge taxpayer stake in – in – in Fannie and Freddie, are you comfortable with people using crypto, something that isn't really, you know, tangible in many ways to pay for a down payment on a house?

REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: Well, look at bitcoin, for example. One can now buy bitcoin. It is a commodity. It's been determined that it's a commodity by the CFTC and the SEC. One can hold it in their brokerage account through an exchange traded products, an ETF, ETP. It's now an asset for millions of Americans. And it certainly could be treated like a stock or a bond or cash as a contribution to someone's net worth to qualify for a mortgage.

An if we pass Clarity this week, which I expect we will on a bipartisan basis, and we craft a dollar back stable coin, like Genius, offered by Senator Haggerty, we'll have the rules of the road. It won't be a patina of consumer enforcement, it will be real consumer enforcement, investor protections, both by the CFTC, the SEC and the bank – and the bank regulators.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And a down payment for a house.

REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: Well, look, again, bitcoin is an asset. You can determine if you think it's going to go up in value or down in value, just like stocks and bonds, or other investments that people have on their financial statement to secure their financial statement for a net – for net worth purposes, or to liquidate –

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: In the – for a – a down payment.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: So, I think it's a financial asset. Our bill will make it a more secure world –

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right.

REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: And one that's better for, I think, all households and businesses.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm out of time so I'm going to have to leave it there.

Thank you, Congressman.

We'll be back.

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