The other League is possible. Interview with Massimiliano Fedriga, the anti-Vannacci.

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Another right? You'll find it, indeed, in the upper right, towards Friuli Venezia Giulia, a region rarely talked about but which works . Since 2018, in the velvety hands of governor Massimiliano Fedriga , 45, from Verona and therefore not native ("But I went to live in Trieste when I was very young"), a lifelong Lega member but quite atypical, at least for the nationalist-sovereignist League of recent years: moderate, concrete, not ranting, and above all quiet. In fact, he gives very few interviews, so for once he speaks, it's worth giving him a very long one. And here, surprisingly, among the few he says, Fedriga's most popular words are "dialogue" and "synthesis," as if Forlani were speaking. In short, a vague but pleasant hint of the DC hovers around the president, a scent of moderation, a hint of pragmatic and un-shoutable politics, more interested in discussion than confrontation. Consequently, interesting.

Let's start with you, governor: where are we at? "In the second year of my second term, which expires in 2028." And, barring any now frankly improbable twists, I'm unable to run for a third term. For the League, their third term was a resounding defeat... "Let's just say we didn't get the result, and that's a shame. And it's a shame not because the League didn't succeed, but because that law is absurd. The regional president, along with the mayor, is one of the few cases in which citizens directly elect who they want to govern. Now, here it's been established by law that voters can't decide. In Friuli Venezia Giulia (which, however, is a region with a name that's too long, so from now on I'll write FVG, interviewer's note), before the direct election, no regional president had served two terms: I'm the first. But if the citizens wanted me to stay, why prevent them from choosing?" To add to the collateral damage, we can also consider the mayor or governor who, knowing that his term is over, in his second and final term focuses primarily on his political career rather than the community he is supposed to govern. Examples abound.

“And to think that there's no mandate requirement for indirect elections.” Excuse me, Fedriga, not to rub salt in the wound, but removing it was the mother of all Salvini's battles… “ We didn't succeed, but the problem remains; so, I hope someone takes charge of the matter .” But if you didn't succeed, whose fault is it? The government's? “Actually, Meloni had an open position on the issue, but then evidently there was a blockade.” In reality, the blockade is called Antonio Tajani. “Forza Italia is the most hesitant about a third term, I've tried to talk to them too, I hope that with time we can reach a compromise.” And here, Fedriga truly wins an honorary DC membership card: “hesitant” Forza Italia that built barricades, “finding a compromise” are delightfully old-fashioned expressions, pure First Republic. “I've always been a League supporter, and I'm convinced. But if you don't find agreement among different nuances and sensibilities, you won't get results. I don't always seek a position of strength.” Perhaps he should tell his federal secretary that… “But Salvini also knows how to find synthesis, and in fact the League is part of a coalition that has been governing together for years, and well at that.” We'll get to that later. To close the chapter on the third term and the regional elections: I imagine what you said also applies to Zaia and that you think Veneto should remain with the League. “For the League, Veneto is certainly important. Obviously, it's absurd that Luca, who is highly regarded by the Venetians—the election results are there, just read them—can't continue to do what he does so well. But the law is in place for now. As a general principle, I believe coalitions must find the best people. The Cencelli manual always loses.” Well, this seems like the usual formula for a political interview. “But I also applied it in Friuli Venezia Giulia. I never imposed a candidate because they belonged to one party over another, but only those who had the best chance of winning and then governing well. Want an example? In 1919, we were very strong; in the region, the League had taken over 40 percent in the European elections, and in the previous general elections, 18 percent. Yet, we nominated a Forza Italia member for mayor in Trieste and Gorizia, a FdI member in Pordenone, and a League member in Udine. One in four League members. And they all won. So, returning to Veneto: Zaia as president would be an excellent deal for the region. Since that's not possible, the federal secretary and the Liga Veneta will choose the best candidate to propose to the coalition. I imagine the allies will do the same, and then a decision will be made.”

By the way, won't she be able to run again either? How do you see yourself in ten years, on the beach with a mojito (well, maybe not a mojito, it doesn't bring luck to beach-going Northern League members)? "Meanwhile, in Friuli Venezia Giulia, being a special-statute region, a third term isn't out of the question. And I've learned one thing from politics: never see yourself anywhere, because the more you make plans, the more they're disregarded, and in general, you risk making the wrong choices. I, for example, really didn't want to be governor." No? " No. I was in Rome, in Parliament, I was happy there, and I was even offered a potential ministry. Then, for various reasons, they convinced me to run. And it was a wonderful experience, also because if you're a legislator, you vote on measures whose effects you won't see; if you hold executive power, you see the results immediately. Local government is much faster and more streamlined ." If you had to claim just one result, just one, as president of Friuli Venezia Giulia, what would it be? "The regional budgets. We live on co-payments, not transfers from Rome, and I've never raised taxes. But the tax base—that is, those who pay them—has increased, and significantly. In 1918, I found a budget of €4.1 billion; in 1924, when I fired the last one, it was €6.2 billion. My first adjustment was €80 million, the last one €1.2 billion. This means that, if you invest intelligently in the region, public budgets also improve. If you cut, you stifle economic activity, and therefore public finances also suffer." A Christian Democrat and also a Keynesian.

But we need to put these small domestic issues into a global context. Let's talk about Trump's tariffs, even if we grant that anyone, especially him, is certain about what they will ultimately be. Has he done the math? How much will Friuli Venezia Giulia, which is a busy northeast and therefore exports a lot, lose? "Various estimates have been released, the most reliable ones put the damage at €400 million. But I don't really believe it." Why? "Because right now it's difficult to make serious predictions; we don't know if there will be exceptions, which ones, and for whom. Friuli Venezia Giulia exports mainly machinery, shipbuilding, food and wine, and components to the US. Many of these are mid- and medium-high-end products, so presumably their sales will be less affected by price increases. What worries me most about the tariffs is the uncertainty, because companies need clear rules to be able to reorganize." Trump is, how can I put it? A bit unpredictable. "He's not very stable in his choices." And yet much loved by the League and its secretary... "The United States is our main ally and must remain so. I said it even before their elections: it's a democracy, the voters will choose, we must respect their choices and work with whoever wins." He will admit that Trump is a tad questionable, both in his decisions and in the way he changes and communicates them... "I'm not criticizing the leader of a foreign country, I'm simply acknowledging the choices of his administration. If you represent an institution, you must have respect for the others. The important thing is to be able to work in everyone's interest." Finding a compromise, in short. "Exactly." By the way: how do you judge the negotiations between Trump and von der Leyen? "On the European side, they were handled with uncertainty. The outcome isn't as dramatic as some say, but it certainly can be improved. Some countries will come out worse than us, others better, but the negotiating skills demonstrated on this occasion don't seem the best to me. It's an old question: the problem isn't the EU, but how it's organized." Do you think that if European countries had negotiated individually, they would have emerged better? "First of all, it can't be done, for the simple reason that we are a single market, so whether goods enter Italy or Ireland, they're still in Europe. Then, perhaps for some specific products, we can discuss and find some relief, but these are exceptions, not the rule. In this regard, it seems to me that our government has acted not only intelligently but also responsibly, unlike others."

But in the end, is Europe us or is it our enemy? “ The European choice is irreversible. This is not an opinion, but a statement.” Did you say this to Borghi, Bagnai, and the rest of the vocal minority of your party? “I repeat: Europe is here and will be here, there's no turning back. Then everyone can think as they please .” By the way: in Strasbourg, should the League move closer to the EPP? “Dialogue with the People's Party is important so as not to crush them against the Socialists. If there's a political family with which dialogue must take place, it's precisely this one. I'm a member of the Committee of the European Regions, and I can guarantee that the Socialists there have much more radical positions than the Italian left.” In short, “dialogue” (another point for the DC prize) is a given: but would a possible alliance with the EPP be taboo? “In politics, taboos don't exist.” Also because they deny it, but it seems they're just waiting for it... "I hope they're also willing to look beyond the left. As we saw with the Green New Deal, where the People's Party rightly distanced itself from a purely ideological and completely failed approach." So, does more Merz and less Le Pen (or Orbán) seem like a viable program for your political parties? "These are all positions that can seek and find dialogue (and laugh!, ed.) between them. If there are points of contact that serve to reach a possible agreement, why not try? But on one condition: we must stop turning our adversaries into public enemies. You mentioned Orbán. Demonizing him was a grave European mistake, because he is the democratically elected president of his country. Then again, some may not agree with his positions, but the Hungarians chose him, and we must work together. And add that attacks on ideas are acceptable; attacks on individuals, not so much." While we're on the subject of foreign affairs, give the Meloni government a rating on the Ukrainian issue. "I give it a solid 9. I completely agree with the government's immediate stance: Russia's aggression is to be condemned, and we must continue to support Ukraine. Then, like everyone else, I hope a ceasefire can be reached as soon as possible." The League, however, is the most pro-Putin of the Italian parties—no, actually, the Five Star Movement is also there—but we're pretty much there. "But the votes in Parliament were very clear, the majority was compact. It's true, there were some nuanced statements, but in practice the League supported the government that supports the Ukrainian resistance." And Salvini in Red Square wearing a T-shirt with Vladimir Putin's face?

“We're talking about well before 2022, when everyone had relations with Putin. As Prime Minister, Enrico Letta met with Putin even after he annexed Crimea. Moreover, it was right to have structured relations with Russia. If Russia invades a sovereign state, those who had relations with her are not obligated to defend her.” But have you been to Moscow? “Never been to Russia. Or even to China.” So where? “Outside Europe, in the US and Japan…” Impeccably Western, even as a tourist, in short. And what grade do you give the Meloni government as a whole? “I'd say it fully deserves an 8.” Will it last until the end of the legislature? “Definitely yes, although perhaps the Prime Minister will consider bringing forward the polls by a few months. The important thing is not to go to vote in the fall.” Why? "Because if you vote in the fall, you won't have time to finalize the budgets, whether state or regional, it's the same. You have to vote in the spring, because otherwise, between swearing in the elected officials, writing the budget law, and voting, we'll be skipping over to the following year, and that's not good at all." Meloni will be the first, I believe in the entire history of the Republic, to have her government survive without reshuffles for an entire legislature. "And that's fine, it's an important signal, especially abroad. A government's international standing is directly proportional to its stability: nothing damages the country's prestige like sending different ministers around every year. After all, I was and am very much in favor of the prime ministership." What's your take on the summer gossip about Meloni as the future president of the Republic? "It would be wonderful to have the first female president. We're still a long way from that prospect." (And here, chapeau: a statement that is absolutely political in substance and exquisitely Christian Democrat in form.) Politics fantasy aside, the impression is that Meloni or the center-right will govern for the next twenty years. Any temporal reference is entirely coincidental, more due to the opposition's shortcomings than to its own merits. "The government, I repeat, is governing well. The opposition's proposals lack structure because the major themes of the historic left have been abandoned, but in their place there's nothing, and certainly not credible government proposals. The center-right, with all their differences, has always maintained substantial unity. Between the Democratic Party and the Five Star Movement, it's not that their positions differ, it's that they're downright incompatible. Take foreign policy, for example, or the environmental issue. It seems to me that there's an awareness in the country that, if they were called upon to govern, the consequences would be dramatic." In short, you say: others are worse than us. It sounds like the booed baritone who blurted out: you'll hear the tenor. I don't deny that there have been disagreements among the center-right allies, and sometimes even heated ones, otherwise we'd all be in the same party. But then the Council of Ministers votes together, as do the parliamentary groups, the government moves forward, and everything else is fine.

Meanwhile, his secretary, Salvini, is fighting for the Strait of Messina Bridge, and the original Northern League members, the hardcore Northern League supporters, don't like it at all, as Giancarlo Caselli also stated. "Yes, but the development of transport links in the South is an advantage for the entire country, and therefore fundamentally for the North as well. The South has every opportunity for development, and the Bridge will act as a driving force. There is a Southern question just as there is a Northern question. But they exist in symbiosis. To the 'old' Northern League members, I say that the battle for differentiated autonomy demonstrates that today's League continues to take the North's needs into consideration. And it continues to work on this." So, differentiated autonomy, another Northern League battle that may not be lost, but is a bit uncertain. "The LEP process is moving forward, important steps have been taken." As president of a region with a special statute, don't you think it would have been more practical to transform Italy into a country of twenty regions like this, instead of sitting there balancing competences and minimum levels? It would have been an equally daunting undertaking anyway... "I don't think so. We're talking about differentiated autonomy here, not special autonomy, which has entirely specific historical or geographical reasons. I remember that differentiated autonomy stems from a reform pushed by the left and stems from an observation I defy anyone to dismiss as incorrect: who performs certain functions better for the citizen, the state or the region? Since not all situations are the same, perhaps I, in Friuli Venezia Giulia, feel I can better manage, say, Civil Protection, while, say, in Umbria, I can better manage the Regional School Office. It's not a revolution, but simple common sense. In any case, the reform is moving forward, with all the inevitable difficulties, but when it's approved, it will be a good day for Italy. All of Italy: north and south."

But, Fedriga, if the most important intellectual contribution—let's call it that—to the center-right debate, or rather, the center-right, is General Vannacci's book, some identity issues arise. "I really don't think Vannacci's book has been the most important contribution in recent years." So little, in fact, that the author was immediately made deputy secretary of the League. "Of course, the book generated a lot of interest, it sold well and perhaps even was widely read, but ultimately, it remained there. I don't think it revolutionized Italian politics. What is certain is that the general represents some positions that exist, that are there, and that have found a voice ." You agree with them. "Some, yes, others, not at all." Cite one for both cases. "On the fight against illegal immigration, for example, I think Vannacci is right. On homosexuality, he's radically wrong, especially because it's based on statistics, a very dangerous method because it can make any minority abnormal. And this is coming from someone who has always defended the traditional family; that's another position of Vannacci's that I like. But for me, respect for people, for all people, comes first." Confess: have you read the book? "Not everything, just the parts, so to speak, that have been the most controversial." And have you met the general himself? "Twice, I think." How warm. The impression remains of a League where not everyone, like you, for example, agrees with Salvini's sectarian and right-wing shift in recent years. "I don't see all this radicalism. Sometimes some people express themselves a little more forcefully, but that's normal. We're human beings, not replicants. The League is a political party, not a barracks. Sensitivity and even positions can differ. It happened in the old League too. Borghezio and Caselli, whom you mention, were certainly members of the same party, but they didn't have exactly the same positions or even the same style of expressing them." You're Catholic: would you go kiss the rosary in the square? "Not in the square, but because I don't bring it with me." In every conversation with every member of the League, there's always this ghost or unwelcome guest, Matteo Salvini. Will he remain secretary for life, like the Pope? “ I don't think so. Being secretary is extremely difficult. From the outside, it's easy and sometimes a bit unfair to criticize, but when you actually do it—it happened to me in Friuli Venezia Giulia—you understand how complicated it is. There are balances to be found, responsibilities to be shouldered, difficult choices to be made. Whoever is secretary can only be thankful .” But many, inside and outside the League, note that a party that was at 34 percent is now hovering, depending on the pollsters, at 8 or 9… “Yes, but when Salvini took over, the League was at 4 percent. It's true that he brought it to 34 percent, but if today it's at 8 percent, which is more likely 9 or 10, it's still double. And the secretary has also made courageous choices.” What? For example, when Draghi joined the government. A decision that, we knew full well, would have been detrimental in terms of consensus. But Salvini and the League took on that responsibility for the good of the country. It was an atypical coalition, representing very different positions, but being part of it at that moment served Italy's needs. Shouting from the outside would have been much more convenient, but it would have handed the government of the country to the Democratic Party and the Five Star Movement. "Shouting from the outside" is the perfect description of what Giorgia Meloni did at the time, and indeed built her electoral fortunes on it. "In fact, it's a compliment to Matteo Salvini, who on that occasion put the country's interests before those of the party." You appreciated Draghi, right? Let us dream. “Very much. He was and is a figure with international authority and, at the same time, a great ability to defend national interests, and he made himself available at a time he knew would be difficult. The same applies to the League, too. I believe Italians can only be grateful.” Let's get back to Salvini, though. He must have made one wrong choice, just one. “I have to think about it…” I'll help you remember. Papeete: the word is enough. “The timing was wrong there, not the decision. I also told him that the Five Star Movement government experience needed to end, so I take my responsibility. But perhaps, with hindsight, the split should have been consummated at a different time. But none of us would ever do the same thing again, and I repeat: it's easy to judge from the outside.”

We close with current political news. The newspapers open and the story of the day is reportedly the clash between the government and the judiciary. After all, it's 1994, Berlusconi is in power, and in this blessed country, the more change, the more the same. If it weren't such a major issue, perhaps "the" true national issue, one might quote Sandra Mondaini: how boring, how boring... "The point is that no one has ever had the courage or strength to bring about a real justice reform. And this is the responsibility of politicians, for which the judiciary cannot be blamed, which should finally question its internal organization. But I don't think the solution is to leave everything as it is, because there are answers to be given to citizens, not politicians. And they concern the slowness of trials, legal uncertainty, and also, consequently, the ability to attract investment. There is certainly an administrative and resource problem. But the Nordio reform is a step in the right direction, and I completely agree with it." We've seen many justice reforms; none have been implemented. Will this be the right time? “I'm optimistic because I see determination and unity on the part of the majority, but I'm not certain. It seems to me that, even in this case, responsibility and dialogue are needed from all parties involved. Clashes serve to generate headlines, but in reality they don't help anyone .” And, while we're on the subject, what do you say about the Almasri case? “I'm not in a position to make specific assessments; I don't know the facts well enough. But there's a more general aspect, if I may.” He can. “A government can make decisions that are acceptable or not, I won't go into the merits of the matter, but in this case, it remains a political, not a judicial, level. If national security issues are at stake, and it seems to me that this is the case, the risk of legal action is that of weakening the executive's action. I'm in favor of the government having the freedom to act in these cases to pursue the general interest; otherwise, we risk becoming a weak country. And in these times, we can't afford that.”

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